Has anyone solved state-bloat?

Question

Has anyone solved state-bloat?

Any chain with low enough fees, even without, can be spammed by data that just lives forever at no cost.

Just use real storage costs bro

There's an Ethereum paper that basically just resorts to "set some arbitrary and low price and just leave it there," which will need adjusting from the social layer, thus isn't robust.

Stateless solutions remove the problem altogether (not really)

AFAIK any accumulator requires that members of the accumulated state have up to date proofs sent to them - that means every block every user needs a specific updated member-proof sent their way.
This interactivity requirement is heavy, and might cost more than just storing the data itself, while also requiring greater involvement from nodes; a user can't just keep their transaction and spend it later, they have to keep updating their membership proof.

The reason market-driven solutions are so hard is for two reasons:
1) Every node must have the complete unspent transaction set.
2) The transactions you want to expire don't give input to a pricing mechanism.

Sharding solved this a long time ago

Sure, if you can shuttle the lowest value transactions and dust to a shard, you've unburdened the other shards by what has been. But who runs the shit shard? And other pressing concerns (like sharding UX).

ZK Proofs

ZK Proofs are great and will revolutionize light clients, but you still need to generate proofs over the full set of unspent transactions, which means it needs to be maintained.

Filecoin!

Filecoin is made to support non-universal state. Blockchain transactions must be known by every node, a challenge Filecoin doesn't need to meet.

Has anyone solved this problem without just hardcoding a price or pretending it isn't a major issue or relying on muh governance?

there is no solution that is secure, fast and computational cheap. The problem is not solvable in a universe that follows that standard model of physics and gravitational waves

No solution is satisfactory. Hold BTC, it solves all the problems.

Hold BTC, it solves all the problems.

that's right

If you have single-use digital signatures, you can actually have a completely stateless currency with no blockchain at all. This requires quantum-cryptography, though.
BTC is good

no it doesn't

secure

not computational cheap

not fast

Thats 1 of 3, thats even for crapto pretty bad.
And with parsing being unsecure and untrustable between crapto and regular databases that make 2 out of 3, crapto failed as database tech.

Its better to use a cloud that is fast and cheap and can be secured by other means than to use crapto

stateless

that sounds computationally extremely expensive.

Quantum

so its nothing. Until then a good cloud cdn in a jurisdiction where the provider can be sued

It's not expensive, it's the opposite. It'd be like if Bitcoin was nothing but digital signatures that didn't need to be tracked by anyone except their current owner.
But, yes, I'm not suggesting QC is close.
And no, a centralized db is for retard-currencies.

a cloud is hardly centralized, its less distributed which makes it fast and cheap, and if the legislation and organization fit its also secure. Crapto is a solution for no problem.

It's not expensive,

the only way to do this would be what transformers in multi purpose generative models currently do, anonymous recursions through indexes. That is pretty much without quantum the computationally most expansive way to look for a value

a cloud is hardly centralized

> One person can mutate data at will

>> 100s of millions of dollars and you expect honesty

Don't be a pedant. It's clear now you don't understand what you criticize. Big words don't make you less of a retard.

One person can mutate data at will

there are more than enough security protocols to mitigate that problem. Sorry but no, crapto failed. Whenever one has to decide what database model to sue for a specific project, considering crapto is always a fun experiment; its without an exception always the worst, most expansive, and ironically most insecure

Your mind has become weak by trying to be a crypto skeptic in a low IQ community of proponents. You flash big words at shitcoin gamblers and believe you have conquered the smartest people in the room. If you think a replicated corporate server can't be trivially gamed (well understood by people before Bitcoin even existed) then you simply aren't worth arguing with, you're as much a retard as you think everyone here is, and you're probably unemployed.

The big leaks and breaches of today, that are of course blown out of proportion considering the amount of "centralized" databases in the world are nearly exclusively done through social engineering, same as in crapto 'hacks'.

You lost the Alpha and young Zoomer crowd with the cringe doge and nft cycle. Congrats, no new blood coming, let alone young blood willing to even look at crapto from a tech perspective

Remember the thread is about state bloat. You opened by talking about physical limitations, a comment so retarded I was sure it was a joke. Now you've been BTFO'd to talking about general sentiment. Just pathetic, man.

there is nobody left that cares about state bloat. Easy as. Why. There is no solution outside fabled quantum lies.

You don't even know what the words mean. I'm not interested in your input.

then go talk to an llm with memory and have it hallucinate the statistically most likely output that keeps you prompting

It's not really solvable from a theoretical standpoint, since you can't delete state and thus it will grow indefinitely until the end of time.

until resources run out
just another buffer overflow error

In a UTXO model it is easier, because you can delete state without affecting the logic of other transactions. But even granting that, determining market rates feels impossible, which is why most chains with 'rent' end up setting arbitrary values.

Not reading all this shit but Chainlink solves it

Unless an UTXO is spent, no you cannot ever delete it without invalidating someone's ownership of that UTXO.

Which is perfectly acceptable, arguably mandatory, if their balance is 0.0001 coins worth half a slice of bread and it takes up 300mb.

One can just randomly delete data on multiple servers

Hey I decide that this entry has to be deleted

fuck you
crapto is so over. Only communists and retards multi level marketing freaks left. cringe

Same can hold for account models too, so it's not really a UTXO vs account problem.

btw most governments solve this problem by having funds that haven't been touched for a period of time become "unclaimed". It's possible for blockchains to have something like this, such as forcing all balance holders to make a transaction ever X blocks or their balances go the miner of the block.

Yeah, perfectly sensible high-level idea. The issue is of course a mechanism which doesn't target transactions of genuine value which make efficient use of space; tuning it to target the actual waste and dust.

i decide what value is

could you namefag as Carlos Marx, or Josephine Stalin?

How do you think capitalist regimes like the United States function and have functioned for centuries? Either you're very young or a troll.

I bet you suck cock just to have someone besides your parents pay attention to you.

capitalist

that word doesnt exist outside of marxist religious dogma. Translated from marxist to human it means "somebody that socializes his risks and costs onto me that isnt me, but I wish I were and could socialize my risks and costs"

A "capitalist" is just a word by a poor socialist for a rich socialist.

A real human calls what you likely dont understand but stereotypically try to imagine in your pea brain, free market, you dont decide. you get killed

Alright what word you want to use faggot?

What do you want to rename the modern economic structure as beyond the standard term Capitalism?

the US is a socialist regime of the new liberal variation since 1901. Anglo/Dutch mercantilism with the socialist concept of "common good" sneaked in.

Alright so use the term mercantilism then, these laws existed before 1901 and ancient regimes in Europe have had similar laws for millennia. If you think asset seizure in the event of dormancy is inherently socialist, then civilization has been socialist since the beginning, the king/sovereign always has the last word.

laws

what laws?
Asset seizure?
What the fuck are you talking about retard?
The main point is that YOU you dirty fucking socialist piece of mentally ill waste believes that his particular perception of his small reality and the conceptualization "gained" from this brainwash qualifies him to be able to make universal statements about meaning and value

All socialists need to be genocided. Its a very particular type you. A set of "humans" that are so mentally ill they really imagine their own perception a unioversal and collective A type that is more than likely genetic and that should have been genocided after 1945 and latest 1990

Yeah, you're retarded :^)

All I know is that your database model sucks and I rather deal with some cloud cdn than whatever you consider in your stalinist dystopia

I hate communists who would steal my money, I believe in the free market!

That's why I store all my wealth on servers controlled by centralized entities that can readily steal it all

lmao

only that they are not centralized. If their service sucks there are hundred thousand of others with perfect substitute services - crapto is a non-solution for a problem that doesnt exist - the last artifact where the screech of a Gramscian "expert" through 20th century propganda media nearly managed to usher in commutardism through the backdoor masking as lolbert - but only nearly.

Its too late. Crapto is dead as the state is dead

That dude has an extra chromosome. I bet he lost money trading shitcoins and is bitter, or a lead-poisoned boomer.

Anyways thanks for the non-braindead replies. I think I've made some progress.

YES