Tariffs are dumb
fair and free competition
against nations that have zero worker safety, or environment regulations
What a shining beacon of morality you are, stopping your enemy from making a mistake and instead offering to reshore these polluting and dangerous jobs. I vote you should get the first shot at getting crushed to death in an industrial cylinder drum.
I think free trade is good if we can have slaves in the countries where we manufacture the products!!!!
Hear me out.... how about we set higher tariffs, and then NOT crush people with industrial cylinder drums.
Why is a big government with big taxes controlling what I can and can’t buy better than allowing the consumer to make the choice themselves?
Im sorry but the manufacturing tolerance allows for you to be crushed in a barrel drum once every thousand drums. It’s unfortunate yes, but does keep the process efficient and cheap thankfully.
sure every economist on the planet thinks that tariffs are retarded, but what do they know. they just spend their entire career thinking about the economy.
D:<
Not a single economist against these tariffs has talked about the tariff effects on employment. They don't because they know it will help long term. A world in which the GDP has gone up 5% isn't going to necessarily be better than one where it never went up at all but no one is stealing your amazon packages anymore, or ransacking your local walmart.
economists have never been wrong
ESPECIALLY those who gave us such classics as "infinite QE is a good thing, actually" and "debt can just finance debt indefinitely." and let's not forget my personal favorite, "expanding the money supply doesn't actually create inflation because MMT or something"
Those are all true though, infinite QE is valid if your appetite for debt outpaces your appetite for monetary supply, debt can finance debt infinitely presuming your credit is good, and expanding the monetary supply doesn’t always create inflation, Ala 2009-2019. In fact inflation only went up when Cheeto in chief threw helicopter money at people.
Nice false dilemma right there.
"One economist who has commented on the impact of Trump’s tariffs on employment is David Autor, a professor at MIT. In a January 2024 study co-authored with others, Autor concluded that the tariffs imposed by the Trump administration in 2018–2019 "had neither a sizable nor significant effect on U.S. employment in regions with newly-protected sectors." This suggests the tariffs didn’t deliver the job growth in protected industries that was often promised. However, he also noted that foreign retaliation against U.S. tariffs had "clear negative employment impacts, particularly in agriculture," indicating that while the tariffs themselves didn’t boost jobs significantly, the retaliatory measures from other countries did cost jobs in specific sectors. Autor’s work highlights a nuanced view: little direct employment gain from the tariffs, but measurable losses from the broader trade conflict."
Now what?
"debt can just finance debt indefinitely."
Citation needed
2009-2019 was just fake and gay
elon musk taking down twitter was when everyone realized it was just fake and gay
10,000 employees needed to run twitter
Not really an argument. By the numbers consumer goods inflation mostly went down during those years, with commodities getting noticeably cheaper, despite the monetary supply inflating, since the new supply was mostly regulated to inflating financial bubbles and not consumer goods.
How do you know that the lack of increase in jobs wasn't due to the fact that the jobs were going away, and were kept stable with positive pressure from the tariffs?
That would be supported due to the effect of the retaliatory tariffs doing the opposite.
I just proved you wrong. Economists were talking about the effects on employment. Now say thank you, you goalpost moving little cunt.
You just showed me that they had ZERO evidence that it was bad. None. Nothing.
The question was not about evidence, you disingenous little maggot. It was about whether or not economists talked about it. You have been proven wrong. I will fuck you dry now.
You realize you were just baited into conceding the core argument right?
Holy fuck look at this MIGA tard crumble when presented with real and factual evidence. Does Q say anon is wrong kekekek
Didn't Reagan tariff Japan because America couldn't stand that the Japanese were building better cars? It wasn't even a "taking out jobs" argument there, the other side just built a better mousetrap and America chimped out over it
Not an argument fag.
I think it was microprocessors that really set them off.
Tariff bad I don't like Drumpf
YouTube link
Buy an ad
And every scientist agrees you should take 18 COVID vaccines and racism is the real virus
Q predicted this
The sciences being ideologically captured doesn't make trusting people who are about as credible as your local crackhead, any less retarded.
My favorite was
Inflation is transitory!
From these jewish “economists”
Trust the EXPERTS chud
I'm an immunologist and can confirm mass vaxxie dieoff in approximately two weeks
You actually won that exchange, but you’re clearly arguing with a true believer MAGA cultist. They don’t need arguments. They need mental help.
Tariffs are dumb
They are, but when everyone in the world is hitting YOU with them, at some point you have to hit back.
this bait is already getting old as fuck and it's been three days, this is going to be like still talking about the vaccine after six fucking years isn't it
This
It's not about morality at all, it's about the fact that US workers basically have to compete with third worlders whose wages are dirt cheap because of their cost of living, lack of worker safety, lack of environmental measures, etc.
Europe has better worker and environmental protections than you do
No, kike. Why should American companies be hamstrung by costly government imposed restrictions yet the competition get off scott free?
Now go ahead and explain how Switzerland and the Falkland Islands have zero worker safety or environmental regulations - these received some of the highest tariffs.
Strawman.
Swiss luxury watches for instance were always cheaper in the US than they were in Europe, because of VAT.
Just saying
No, fact. Switzerland has gotten a 31% tariff and the Falkland Islands 41%. Justify this.
Yes, Americans are retarded and don't realize how lucky they are to not have fallen for the VAT meme. Consumption taxes are the surest way to destroy the purchasing power of the population, because the lower your income is, the more of it is spent on consumption.
Tariffs are consumption taxes btw.
Swiss agricultural protections. Falklands because fuck you, we can.
Just showing that Switzerland is one of the countries that were able to sell their products cheaper in the US due to the lack of taxes in the US.
They force you to consume DOMESTICALLY which is awesome for things like chronic deficits.
VAT is simply theft.
REAGAN BY FAR WAS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY. TRICKLE DOWN MY BALLS BITCH... TRUMP STAY WINNING BUY MONERO
Tariffs in it of itself are not dumb and are a valuable tool. Imposing 10-60% tariffs overnight however is straight up retarded.
Economists are in a quantum superposition of right and wrong. Yes you can just print money indefinably but you risk credibility loss. No one will want to loan money to the united states ever again.
Tarrifs are good. and only retarded austrian Atlas shrugged, economists think that they are bad.
How is that any different from the USA's notorious agricultural protectionism? Reminder that hundreds of millions of your tax money were used to pay fines for cotton subsidies in the WTO in just one example. Also reminder that Switzerland literally just got rid of all industrial tariffs:
seco.admin.ch
Falklands because fuck you, we can.
And then you try to pretend that this policy has any thought put into it rather than just feels over reals.
See above.
They force you to consume DOMESTICALLY
AKA they're using the exact same kind of theft as VAT because of some commie tier delusion that the government can hit a button and magically force the economy to change according to its whims. How well did 60% tariffs on everything work for Brazil? Or Argentina's insane protectionism over the last century, which caused it to drop from being one of the richest countries in the world to being in constant crisis?
faggot, retard. actually learn economics instead of quoting some faggot. Read ha joon chang kicking away the ladder. and then read karl marx. you will know that protectionist policy only benefits the average worker.
Yes, globohomo, the government can say we are bleeding too much money through trade deficits and losing too much industry to the point where controls implemented. Governments can do that.
do you know what is value added tax? tarrifs have nothing to do with this bullshit. Tarrifs are foreign vs domestic. VAT is added to basically everything. fuck you retard
we are bleeding too much money through trade deficits
Write a 30 page essay explaining how the US is "bleeding away money" when the median income is higher and goods are cheaper in the US than almost anywhere else, and the gap is actually INCREASING with Americans leaving the rest of the world in the dust in terms of purchasing power.
do you know what is value added tax? tarrifs have nothing to do with this bullshit
They are both consumption taxes. No, I don't care where a product was made, only that there is a tax added to it which is a direct assault on my own purchasing power.
argentina is in crisis because of javier melei and his retardation. poverty rate is at all time high and hunger etc... american agricultural protectionism is our greatest strong suit. I fucking love milk, and i want my milk SUBSIDIZED. I want to walk into a store buy a gallon of milk for 3$ and drink. I don't want to buy 40$ milk just cause its not economically viable. Kill yourself you libertarian scum
Infinite QE is a good thing, actually.
Yes, it actually is. There is no reason to pay interest on bonds at all. They don't need to issue them in the first place, but since they seem averse to leaving reserves in the system, having the Central Bank buy them at low or no interest makes more sense than paying interest to people who already have lots of money.
expanding the money supply doesn't actually create inflation because MMT or something
MMT never argues that it doesn't cause inflation. MMT is simply a description of how the monetary system works and explains that inflationary pressure and real resources are the constraint on government spending, not tax revenue. And for all the hand wringing over government debt, I don't see a lot of attention given to private debt -- which stands at around $30.5T in the US, certainly at higher interest rates than the public debt and lacking the ability to issue currency or levy taxes. Govt sector + private sector + foreign sector = 0. If the nation is running a trade deficit and the government is running a surplus, by identity the private sector must be running a deficit. There are only 2 origin points possible for tax credits (currency): the government or commercial banks creating deposits. If govt runs a surplus, by identity the private sector must get those tax credits from existing savings or bank credit.
Helicopter money caused inflation
The total for all rounds of stimulus checks was around $866 billion. Keep in mind the government printed ~$13T for TARP. A plurality of stimulus money was spent on repaying debt and adding to existing savings, meaning it was either directly deflationary or wasn't circulating. But that doesn't stop corporations from taking advantage of disinformation to raise prices. And where has inflation been seen the most? Housing prices. No one was buying a house with their $4500 stimulus money. It's a disingenuous argument.
argentina is in crisis because of javier melei
Lmao why lie? He took the country when it was falling apart with hyperinflation and rising poverty, and has already managed to reverse it:
indec.gob.ar
Poverty is already lower than it was in 2022, inflation is falling AND the government achieved a budget surplus within one year.
american agricultural protectionism is our greatest strong suit
t. farmer Cletus desperately trying to protect his giganigger tier free gibs
Reminder that New Zealand got rid of agricultural subsidies entirely and their agricultural sector took off as a direct result of that.
retard, median income doesn't mean anything. PPP dollars which is what you are talking about is not highest in USA. its ireland denmark and norway. All of which have high import taxes and VAT even though i dislike VAT also.
median income in PPP is still higher in norway and UAE
new zealand has tarrifs on food retard
Read the chart again, it IS in PPP and Ireland and Norway are both below the USA.
They literally just signed an FTA with the EU and eliminated all tariffs on products coming in. Their existing tariffs range from 5-10%. Try implementing that in the US, 5~10% food tariffs with zero subsidy, see the asshurt it will cause.
How about you eat me instead? America doesn't owe you a fucking market, parasite
America doesn't owe you a fucking market, parasite
Correction: the people in America forcing others to subsidize their businesses are the actual parasites.
Eurocommie socialist casting aspersions about parasitism
Lol my word you faggots have zero self awareness. Maybe if you didn't take it up the ass from your communist overlords you would have more money to spend on your own products and not have to leech off of markets in countries where you're allowed to keep over half your income for yourself.
Correction: free trade is capitalism, protectionism is communism. Go to Cuba where things work the way you want them to.
Poverty is already lower than it was in 2022, inflation is falling AND the government achieved a budget surplus within one year.
Argentina's problems historically have come about from borrowing in dollars. So Milei comes in and he starts slashing the budget and draining down the private sector (which is the only place his government surplus could come from since Argentina typically runs trade surpluses anyway).
Yes, centrally planned economies with 70% tax rates are all about "freedom" faggot. Feel free to hawk your shit to even more impoverished commiepoor countries lol. I'm sure it will work out great for you.
Argentina's problems historically have come about from borrowing in dollars
This is leftoid nonsense from people who peddle IMF conspiracy theories. Borrowing in dollars does not cause hyperinflation, bad monetary policy does. The Kirchner and Fernandez administrations caused severe recessions and exploded inflation to absurd levels.
centrally planned economies with 70% tax rates
But enough about Trump's massive tax hike and attempt to centrally plan the USA's economy with his Hugo Chavez tier policies.
Borrowing in dollars when you already issue the peso is bad monetary policy. Why would the issuer of currency ever need to borrow a foreign currency, especially one that historically runs a trade surplus?
Borrowing in dollars when you already issue the peso is bad monetary policy
This isn't monetary policy to begin with, and Argentina's actual bad internal policy which causes hyperinflation leads to astronomically high interest rates. Why the fuck would you borrow internally at obscene interest when the IMF charges a mere 4%?
I know you live in Europe so I don't know why you'd be this upset about government intervention. You have been licking the gubmint boot for decades and asking for seconds.
Pretty hypocritical when the government of another country that's effectively self sufficient unlike the strawman you beat up upon decides they don't want to enable your Marxist faggot shit any longer
Why would the issuer of currency ever need to borrow?
OK commie, enjoy becoming Venezuela.
Because sometimes the budget looks bad and the alternatives are hyperinflation or austerity? Austerity measures have their time and place, but you're being silly if you unironically want to just print more money disproportionally and make everyone poorer.
Again, Venezuela isn't self sufficient by any stretch of the imagination. The US is. We don't need you, commie. Bye
When the government spends into deficit, it has already created those reserves by identity. They are already in the system, so selling bonds at that point is a policy choice to drain the excess reserves out of the system. There's no real need to perform the asset swap whereby they go from non-interest bearing debt to interest-bearing debt.
There's no real need to perform the asset swap whereby they go from non-interest bearing debt to interest-bearing debt.
Now stop ignoring that Argentina has sky-high interest rates and the government does, in fact, have to pay those high interest debts.
Right, but it's a policy choice. There's no market mechanism for setting interest rates or bond yields. Those are monopoly operations.
There is no populism, they are not interested in "making America great again". From the outset, the people puppeting trump didn't care about trannies, or the border, or even the economy. They fueled your anger and fear because they needed you to cede your power to them willingly. They promised you prosperity, but now that they have complete control your life will be spent generating wealth for them. You will work without rest alongside the dissidents, the criminals, the immigrants, and the queers. In the masters' eyes you are all slaves born for their exploitation. You will survive on their scraps until your usefulness has been exhausted, then you will be discarded.