Day trading

I've been paper trading lightly on the side for the past 3 months. I've made 5-10%/month getting used to how stocks behave around a certain scenario
I have a filter on webull that I check routinely and I've kind of figured out how to trade stocks that appear in the filter during the next few days that they do

my problem is that despite being successful in it and my success rates and confidence going up, I could say> precisely what I'm doing, if I were asked to program a bot to do it, I couldn't

is that normal? do I need a lot more training and data mining? in essence I'm asking if trying to break it down in mechanical rules makes sense or should I just focus on carrying on with intuition

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0 replies

bump, is Anon Babble full of notraders just like Anon Babble is full of nocoders

I just buy and hold whatever motley fool tells me to. Up 12% over the past year.

nothing will teach your more than experience newfren, crying that no one cares to hold your hand when you're providing 0 value to them is an 8 year old's mentality

are you retarded nigger, opening a thread about day trading invites day trading discussion, how are you gonna get any value from it if you don't engage
what's wrong with people with various levels of experience sharing their own?

I’m actually up over 300% over the past year by buying whatever motley fool tells me to. Why waste time day trading when you can pay a small subscription fee for expert analysis and stock tips?

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consider the amount of computing power it takes to run ai that can barely do things a human can do effortlessly. human brain is a very energy efficient computer. it is possible to write a program that mimics your thought process but its not super easy and imo its better to just day trade and use a trailing stop loss

is that normal?

Normal enough. Traders all have differences in style but more or less fall somewhere on a spectrum between two extremes: discretionary and systematic. Your "systematic" element is the screener, and your discretionary element is whatever you are doing after. So you're somewhere in between, but it sounds like you lean discretionary since the methods of execution is what really matters in the end.

in essence I'm asking if trying to break it down in mechanical rules makes sense or should I just focus on carrying on with intuition

If it works, it works. Might not always work though, that's always the tricky bit that you have to plan for in advance. Systematic is always nice because it largely removes the human element and all the faults that we potentially bring to the table. Execution is very black and white, there are no grey areas. But it can also sacrifice real-time adaptability and perhaps be too rigid to work in all but a handful of market environments. Discretionary is only as good as your ability to manage your own expectations, emotions, etc., all the potential shortcomings that humans tend to exhibit when greed and fear inevitably rear their ugly heads. As a discretionary trader your most important task is determining when it's time to STOP, sit back, and reassess. So it helps, even as a discretionary trader, to have systematic elements in regards to risk management and managing your own mindset since ultimately you are the thing doing the execution. Prevent tilting etc.

The market wizards books are a good read to see into the minds of different successful traders. Many of them are discretionary.

makes sense honestly, I'm not sure what's with all the doom and gloom around manually day trading too
if you go on reddit they will just straight up tell you that it's impossible to make a profit and you'll just get dunked on by algorithms
Anon Babble is the only place where I've seen people trade manually, personally from what little experience I have I think it's perfectly doable if you try to keep in mind the basic principles anyone will tell you (don't trade on fear, don't be greedy, etc etc)

this website is dead for many reasons, not the least of which are the bots and the anti-bot measures that jannies have implemented that greatly increased the cost for humans to post. Oldfags simply cannot be assed to wait 5 minutes "you must wait a while before posting" only to be told their long winded effort-post is spam.

Yes it's normal. I did the same thing and something you will hear over and over if you start reading/watching the legit successful traders is: it's completely different when you move from paper trading to real money.

If you're happy with your strategy, open an account and use small amounts. See if you can keep the same w/l ratio and profit. Chances are, like most of us, you'll have some initial success, then get into a fear cycle on your first drawdown. This is the point where you need to decide if you're gonna buckle down, analyze your trades, system, etc...or just quit. If you push through, it can be extremely rewarding, but it's not for everyone. It's fuckin hard, mentally and emotionally. Picrel is a great overview of the necessary trading phycology to be successful.

makes perfect sense anon, seems to be in line with what I've read
I guess I'm just insecure about it, being an engineer I'm very used to things being more precise than approximate
but if it works it works, I have to get used to that
use a captcha solver anon, they work on mobile and desktop

being an engineer I'm very used to things being more precise than approximate

consider what you have now as a "quick and dirty" prototype for what may become a refined system. At the very least you can play around with it, learn from it and use what you learned to create a new prototype. Then iterate until you come up with a design that exhibit the qualities you are looking for. I've personally never gone into quantitative methods, but that could be something that interests you.

If you're happy with your strategy

honestly I don't even know if it can be called a strategy lmao

open an account and use small amounts

I get what you mean, just changing the paper trading amount from 1k to 10k has a psychological hit

now imagine if I'm pulling 5% a month, if I want to cumulate that to 100% a year I'd have to progressively up the volume without losing my cool in any way, it really doesn't sound easy at all

have you been able to do that? what's your discretionary to systematic ratio like
I'm not sure about that, I have a feeling that if I go deeper into the intuitive direction I'll never really be able to adapt it back

if I were asked to program a bot to do it, I couldn't

is that normal?

it's kind of normal but you should work on developing a strict, mechanical strategy, because otherwise you pretty much have no way of surviving downturns and unusual market conditions, though if you day traded for 3 months straight and made profits then you could be moderately confident, did you paper trade with costs included though(like on some platforms demo account)? because 5-10% pre-cost monthly profits almost surely won't work out for you unless you make some max 5-10 trades a month

I'm still in the small amounts stage. I got through my negative drawdown period and now I'm working some new methods into my strategy, but they're mostly psychological things. It's fucked up but, the same strategy used by 2 different people can have very different results. It doesn't make sense, probably especially so if you're an engineer, but traders aren't trading against the market as much us themselves. The greed or fear that drives our decisions is the same greed and fear that drives the markets. I don't want to get all woo, so your next step should be to write out your strategy and come up with a bankroll management plan. You can backtest and such as well, but if you already have 3 months of positive results, go ahead and formulate it on paper, even if it's subjective and based only on the opportunities for a given day. Write out achievable goals and limits on risk, etc...like a business plan. Then fund your account with money you're not scared to lose. You'll never start to actually learn until you do it for real.

I should add: I was an absolutely awesome paper trader. A few other guys who've been it at if for years successfully have told me the same thing lol. I really thought it was the easiest way to make money when I started using real cash, because it sure seemed like it lol. I'm not telling you this to dissuade you, only what to expect so maybe you won't quit when it gets hard.

Idk exactly what sort of trading you're into, but check out some of the profitable guys who trade live and/or have audited accounts. You don't need to buy anyone's courses, just keep gathering info from the successful people and you'll begin to learn more and refine your system. Picrel is a post from an anon who helped me immensely.
Best of luck fren.

unless you make some max 5-10 trades a month

I make about 20, my banks broker has a shitty interface but I've had good results looking at prices on webull and doing the trades through my bank (it's free)
seems both you and that other anon strongly suggest that I get more methodical about it
I guess I'll start with the simplest things such as calculating how much I should aim for in asset% when I'm buying/selling at various win/loss rates
I'll also try to slowly observe my own patterns and see what has been working to try and formulate it

thanks for the references, I don't think I'll be grinding those hard though, I prefer to take it slow and take breaks, I have other sources of income, obsessing over these things rarely goes well for me

Success in day trading is almost always a statistical illusion influenced by other factors (for example the current market being extremely bullish). In my experience the best real traders essentially do nothing for a majority of the time, and maybe 5 times a year they pick up free money when the market is predictable. I'm betting we're currently in that situation right now, where BTC has a very high probability of reaching ATH this year. That simple thesis has given me 5x returns over the past few months, probably higher than 95% of traders. No need to do anything more complicated. You just need a lot of patience because these opportunities do not come often.

day trading is dumb. when its a bull market just buy and hold for a few months to years is better.

I make about 20, my banks broker has a shitty interface but I've had good results looking at prices on webull and doing the trades through my bank (it's free)

But was that like a bank trading platform demo? Trading costs are the first thing you have to figure out and your performance outside of them doesn't say a lot. But if you're making 5-10% a month on top of costs that's very good and you should continue without any major changes, they would probably only hinder your performance, but you obviously should think of risk management, diversification and so on.

Honestly, imagine if you just bought shit during last year and just held

Your experience is no where close to being the norm

that's what I'm saying, the bank platform has no cost somehow, I guess they make profits off converting to USD maybe
you might be right on a certain level, but again if the current market is bullish and the SP500 go up 10% a year, you can't really say it's a statistical illusion to pull 10% a month (for the traders that do)
that's not nearly as profitable as day trading could be though (theoretically)
that's what? 10-15% a year if you're lucky, what good day traders make monthly

that's what I'm saying, the bank platform has no cost somehow, I guess they make profits off converting to USD maybe

if there aren't explicit commission fees then the costs are usually hidden in the spread and yeah conversion is a very high cost, don't convert too many times

if I were asked to program a bot to do it, I couldn't

is that normal? do I need a lot more training and data mining? in essence I'm asking if trying to break it down in mechanical rules makes sense or should I just focus on carrying on with intuition

That is normal in the beginning. You don't understand the technical terms or strategies to write the code. Over time and more studying you'll learn the technical aspects. Now, don't fully rely on intuition because if you do and you go on a L streak your mental will go BIG BOOOM so that's why most legit guys have technical req's for trades but still trade w/that feeling in ya nuts.

it's impossible to make a profit and you'll just get dunked on by algorithms

Do you know why AI cars still hit shit? Because they can not factor in the random (retarded) human variable of an idiot walking in dark with all black clothes or someone frantically turning last second to not miss a turn. Yet, everyone is telling you and (thinking) that market traded AI is fully capable of overcoming that variable. Even if you have a man behind the curtain changing code 24/7 you will still lose money. Watch The Hummingbird Project to give you an idea how algo market works.

alright I understand, I might have underestimated those commissions I'll be more careful before starting

The Hummingbird Project

ok, seems like the best rec in this thread
I cba to watch a full Jewish flick tho I'll run an LLM on the script

there's things you will learn from trading, regardless of style, that will carryover to any method. Moving out of intuitive to systematic is much easier than the other way around as well.

I'm a trading nub, how do I shake the bitch out of me that wants to cut good winners early when the market swiftly agrees. Every time I push past 150% I act irrationally and struggle to not close decent trades early. I have some strategies that I feel comfortable executing but regardless of how "good" the trade looks I can't shake the feeling that something is off.

alright I understand, I might have underestimated those commissions I'll be more careful before starting

It depends on how often you trade and what instruments but certainly it's one of the first things to figure out. You must make sure that the frequency of your trading is adjusted to trading costs, otherwise, your account is getting killed by fees alone(not your poor trades, you actually might easily beat the market pre-costs). Keep in mind that trading costs between various brokers and instruments can vary a lot.

the something that is off is probably your position size being too large

when you know the trick and understand how the market moves you already have 90% of the work done, you just need to lose your sanity in places like biz or beoble looking for and studying a shitcoin that can potentially bull all while you focus on the stock market
t. daytrader

That checks out actually, I've recently been trying to push past a comfort zone as far as sizing goes. I've had too many trades since the start of this year that I've been kicking myself for #1 not sizing up, and #2 not holding past my usual time-frames (a few days). Guess it's just one of those things experience helps with.

I sure hope not, but how are you so sure about that? Client side bugs are notoriously sneaky and difficult to test without, well... clients. And after the bullshit I've been put through with jannies and their arbitrary definition of "solicitation", the last fucking thing I will do is try and help them. Getting banned for making threads on fucking hundred billion dollar companies while the latest rugpulls run amok. The captcha bugs are just salt in the wound at this point.

I have a faint and reminiscent notion of what this board once was, and a yearning for times of past to return... yet even *if* all the bots are gone (if only for a fleeting moment), what is left? What incentive do I or any other oldfag who has half a mind how this damn market works have to come and help the young'ns when all we get is shit on? Therein lies the answer... yet somehow it will be made out to be my fault, of course, as jannies are the "chosen" ones.

Reminiscences of a Stock Operator about Jesse Livermore first 1/3 is good. Him going from boy-plunger (max lev crypto bucket shop knife catcher) to legit floor guy and how he process early losses to make comebacks.

I can't shake the feeling that something is off.

You lack balls/confidence. Market is like women, they can smell when you bitch, need to keep composure.

leverage kek

If you doing this you can keep an anchor position, common during a bull/bear markets. Just sell majority of position and when you buy/sell next dip/rip you guaranteed a positive or with major slippage break-even trade.

bro that dude is totally right you do lack balls and confidence
its as clear as day the market can smell when you are bitching too much you need to keep your composure my guy
and to be honest its a bit embarrassing that you are still using leverage in the 2020s it really shows your lack of confidence
now if you want to learn how to be a real man you should check out my discord bro i’ll teach you all my secrets for only $9999 a month

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I'm retarded first part meant for

leverage

Yes sir I'm as poor as I am stupid. Tremendous, I'll try to shrug off the feeling in similar situations.

lmeow

trading with real money is a whole different game, exchanges trade against you and actively try to fuck you over.

bump

kys shill

someone else bumped a thread I made

mom get the camera, I made it
shit really? source?
I really like your pic related, I'll start using it
anon it seems to me you exhibit some degenerate gambling traits